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avatar zero-24
zero-24
7 Jun 2021

Pull Request for Issue #31842

Summary of Changes

Based on the proposal by @softforge and together with the @joomla/cms-release-team here is a proposal for the 3.10 EOS Plugin to be shipped with 3.10.0.

With the stable release of Joomla 3.10.0 there will be a fixed EOS date (release date + 2 years). This plugin aims to notify the admins first a bit discrete as additional quickicon that point to informations about Joomla 4 and later as notice that 3.10 once it enters security only mode and that at the end of support is "arround the dor" and once its reached as message above the cpanel.

PS. Yes there is a date in the plugin now but thats not the final one and will be changed once the final release is out.

Testing Instructions

Test messages

To be updated once the updated texts are provided

Test the upgrade

Actual result BEFORE applying this Pull Request

No EOS plugin shipped with 3.10

Expected result AFTER applying this Pull Request

There is a EOS plugin shipped with 3.10

Documentation Changes Required

The EOS plugin and its messages needs to be documented. There is also an magazin article planed once this here is finalized.

Questions

@brianteeman can you please review at the proposed language strings.
@richard67 please check the SQL stuff hopefully i have not messed something up?

Once this PR here is ready

  • ... there is a magazin article planed to be released with the (than) next magazin issue.
  • ... there will be a PR against 4.0-dev to make sure this plugin is uninstalled once upgraded to Joomla 4 similiar to the 2.5 plugin.

Thanks

A big thanks goes to @softforge and the @joomla/cms-release-team where we discussed some proposals and where this plugin here is now based on.

avatar zero-24 zero-24 - open - 7 Jun 2021
avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 7 Jun 2021
Status New Pending
avatar joomla-cms-bot joomla-cms-bot - change - 7 Jun 2021
Category SQL Administration com_admin Postgresql MS SQL Language & Strings Installation Libraries Front End Plugins
avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 7 Jun 2021

I can fix the spelling, grammar and typos in the text. BUT do you really want such a jokey message for the announcement - looks very unprofessional

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 7 Jun 2021

and is there really no one else who speaks english on the release team

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 7 Jun 2021

I can fix the spelling, grammar and typos in the text. BUT do you really want such a jokey message for the announcement - looks very unprofessional

Most of the texts where modified by me in the end, and I'm not a native speaker. ;) I'm happy to accept changes to the messages to make them sound better.

avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 7 Jun 2021
The description was changed
avatar zero-24 zero-24 - edited - 7 Jun 2021
avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 7 Jun 2021
Labels Added: ? ?
avatar richard67
richard67 - comment - 7 Jun 2021
avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 7 Jun 2021
avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 7 Jun 2021

sorry but the way the quickicon is done really sucks. That's not the place to put messages.

image

Its also not good to put external links anywhere without an indicator. and there are two different links - one opens in a new window with noopener etc and one opens in the same window with nothing

image

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 7 Jun 2021

Please display a human readable date format that is language aware and not 07.06.2024 which a significant number of people will get wrong or is not correct as they dont use a gregorian calendar

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 7 Jun 2021

If you use Joomla\CMS\Date then you have everything you need for date display and date manipulation. No need for crazy maths (which cant be accurate). Check the php security plugin for an example on how to use it.

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 7 Jun 2021

There is a link to the what is joomla 4 subsite for the first 6 months but after that there is no info on what j4 is

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 7 Jun 2021

image

No link? Nothing - and is this really an error

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 7 Jun 2021

Please display a human readable date format that is language aware and not 07.06.2024 which a significant number of people will get wrong or is not correct as they dont use a gregorian calendar

and

Its also not good to put external links anywhere without an indicator. and there are two different links - one opens in a new window with noopener etc and one opens in the same window with nothing

Fixed: d3a977c

No link? Nothing - and is this really an error

What link do you suggest? It was an error in 2.5 too and using and end of support version is an error in my book. Similiar to the mentiond PHP version checker.

There is a link to the what is joomla 4 subsite for the first 6 months but after that there is no info on what j4 is

Well we can have multible messages and links I'm not sure whether thats more usefull.

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 7 Jun 2021

sorry but the way the quickicon is done really sucks. That's not the place to put messages.

The aim is to show a message about Joomla 4 as well es "we are in sec only mode now" but not bump them on the cpanel so I'd go with the quick icon thing which is not ideal for sure but better than nothing.

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 7 Jun 2021

I think its best if I step away from this and leave it to someone else.

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 7 Jun 2021

Its also not good to put external links anywhere without an indicator. and there are two different links - one opens in a new window with noopener etc and one opens in the same window with nothing

Fixed: d3a977c

Not fixed. still two links. icon only on one link - the icon is usually used for "opnes in a new window" but this opens in the same.

image

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 7 Jun 2021

I think its best if I step away from this and leave it to someone else.

Why? Have I said something wrong? I'm happy for your feedback and happy to implement it.

Not fixed. still two links. icon only on one link - the icon is usually used for "opnes in a new window" but this opens in the same.

Yes will have another look into this later.. I didnt want to change how mod_quickicon works maybe i can find another solution to this.

personaly I would chose lc3

Done

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 7 Jun 2021

I think its best if I step away from this and leave it to someone else.

Why? Have I said something wrong? I'm happy for your feedback and happy to implement it.

Because its really annoying me that a whole team of developers thought this was evenly remotely a good idea.

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 7 Jun 2021

Because its really annoying me that a whole team of developers thought this was evenly remotely a good idea.

The EOS plugin? The messages? I think in the end this here is a proposal and I requested the feedback on this when there is something thats not a good idea in your opinion i'm happy to hear it and than we can discuss and find the best solution to solve the points.

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 8 Jun 2021

Probably should have something like
private function shouldDisplayMessage()

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 8 Jun 2021

When $messageInfo['showMainMessage'] there is no link in the text

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 8 Jun 2021

When $messageInfo['showQuickIconMessage']

The link is generated twice even though it should only be generated once

PLG_QUICKICON_EOS310_MESSAGE_WARNING_SECURITY_ONLY="Joomla! 3.10 has enterd security only mode and will be out of support by %1$s. Start your planning to migrate to Joomla 4 today. "

image

And please decide if these links are to open in a new window (acceptable in this case for a11y) or the same window. If new window then add the rel= stuff

When creating a link it is always preferable if the displayed text indicates to the user what they will expect when they click on it.
example
Joomla! 3.10 has enterd security only mode and will be out of support by %1$s. <a href='%2$s'>Start your planning to migrate to Joomla 4 today. <span class='icon-new-tab'></span></a>

===>
Joomla! 3.10 has enterd security only mode and will be out of support by %1$s. Start your <a href='%2$s'>planning to migrate</a> to Joomla 4 today. <span class='icon-new-tab'></span>

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 9 Jun 2021

Probably should have something like
private function shouldDisplayMessage()

I can not follow you. Thats what the options showQuickIconMessage and showMainMessage was intended to do and they are checked with an if?

When $messageInfo['showMainMessage'] there is no link in the text

You are talking about the last message only right? Thats fixed now: b0353f0

The link is generated twice even though it should only be generated once

Agree. I now run a strip tags above it. That should get rid of that.

And please decide if these links are to open in a new window (acceptable in this case for a11y) or the same window. If new window then add the rel= stuff

Well it seems the quick icon thing only supports "the same site". So the only way to go would be both open on the same site or the quick icon on the same site and the mainMessage (when it shows up) has the target blank? What do you think? Will go with the hybrid thing for now: b0353f0 But I would like to hear your opinion for sure :)

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 9 Jun 2021

Probably should have something like
private function shouldDisplayMessage()

I was referring to the ACL part

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 9 Jun 2021

Not at a computer but from what I can tell the links and quickicon are still wrong

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 9 Jun 2021

Not at a computer but from what I can tell the links and quickicon are still wrong

Please check when you are back i run strip_tags so the two language strings that still include the href tag does not have them in the quick icon message anymore but still in the mainMessage when they show up.

Probably should have something like
private function shouldDisplayMessage()

I was referring to the ACL part

Right now there is no ACL check? But the question would than be should it be showed to everyone? I would say yes specificly the lastest messages. But I'm happy to hear other opinions on this for sure.

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 9 Jun 2021

After another discussion with the CMS Release Team I'm going to add back in a snozze feature that we where working on before and there are also changes planed for the language strings planed. Will update here once the PR are updated with that again. Will move this PR here to draft until than.

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 9 Jun 2021

good to hear

avatar joomla-cms-bot joomla-cms-bot - change - 9 Jun 2021
Category SQL Administration com_admin Postgresql MS SQL Language & Strings Installation Libraries Front End Plugins SQL Administration com_admin Postgresql MS SQL Language & Strings Installation Layout Libraries JavaScript Front End Plugins
avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 9 Jun 2021
The description was changed
avatar zero-24 zero-24 - edited - 9 Jun 2021
avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 9 Jun 2021
The description was changed
avatar zero-24 zero-24 - edited - 9 Jun 2021
avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 10 Jun 2021

What is the intended behaviour of the snooze?
How long is it snoozed for?
Is it snoozed for everyone?

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 10 Jun 2021

image

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 10 Jun 2021

Why are there two language strings for everything. There is nothing _SHORT about the short one

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 10 Jun 2021

What is the intended behaviour of the snooze?
How long is it snoozed for?
Is it snoozed for everyone?

Until the next message comes up, and yes its snoozed to everyone, basicly a per site snooze.

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 10 Jun 2021

Why are there two language strings for everything. There is nothing _SHORT about the short one

The updated strings have not been provided yet. The intention is to have a shorter version in the quickicon and a bit more words in the top message.

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 10 Jun 2021

I am not in favour of it being snoozed per site until the next message
Two admins on the site. One snoozes. The other doesnt know anything about it until 6 months later.
Either make it per user and/or make it only snooze for a time period eg 14 days

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 10 Jun 2021

I am not in favour of it being snoozed per site until the next message
Two admins on the site. One snoozes. The other doesnt know anything about it until 6 months later.
Either make it per user and/or make it only snooze for a time period eg 14 days

The only thing you snooze is the main message at the top the quick icon message is still there the complete time so both admins are going to see it.

The aim of making it snoozble was that fewer people are going to disable the plugin. I'm sure that once it comes up every 14 days, and in the early stages its basicly a marketing message, after two or three times the plugin is disabled on many sites which can not be in our interest.

This is one of the main reasons my inital version didnt include that snooze and main message for non critical messages at all.

avatar softforge
softforge - comment - 10 Jun 2021

The snooze was debated long and hard by the whole group and we came at it from many different angles. There is no one solution to fit all instances but this way the critical messages are more likely to be seen by the admins who work on the site and are less likely to be disabled by the developers/web agency. The snooze usage is in line with the other snooze features we have in other areas of the site such as the stats. Its a compromise but then most things are and the group as a whole thought this the best solution.

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 10 Jun 2021

agree to disagree then.

please let me know when you think the strings are ready

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 10 Jun 2021

agree to disagree then.

please let me know when you think the strings are ready

Yes will ping you once I got them. Will than also update the test instructions above.

avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 10 Jun 2021
Labels Added: ?
avatar mrownicki
mrownicki - comment - 12 Jun 2021

@zero-24

Great options, but I think 14days is too long. Snooze for 7 days is optimal. If you are reminded more often, the probability that people are more likely to migrate to version 4 increases.

Consider it with the devteam or you can even do a survey on the official FB group.(7,14 or 30days) simple but effective approach.


This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application at issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/34453.

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 12 Jun 2021

Great options, but I think 14days is too long. Snooze for 7 days is optimal. If you are reminded more often, the probability that people are more likely to migrate to version 4 increases.

The snooze is once for every message and not time depended right now.

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 15 Jun 2021

Any update on the language strings?

avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 15 Jun 2021

Any update on the language strings?

No I have not got new strings yet.

avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 15 Jun 2021
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avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 23 Jun 2021
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avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 5 Jul 2021
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avatar sozzled
sozzled - comment - 11 Jul 2021

It is not a bad idea to include a quick icon "hassle prompt" to suggest to website developers to consider—at the very least—that they plan to migrate their J! 3.x website(s) to J! 4. I am sure that when the time arrives, with a combination of magazine articles, forum "sticky posts", social media advertising, etc., the fact that J! 4 is available that people should consider the possibility of migrating their old—outdated and unsupported—websites to the latest release.

However, for a small number of people, somewhere between 10-20% I would imagine, such promptings fall on deaf ears (or sightless eyes). Even today, over a decade later, some people become suddenly alerted to their old J! 1.x, 2.5 and antiquated J! 3.x websites falling over like skittles when the webhosting provider that they're using goes out of business or eventually removes technical support that kept their sites alive for as long as they did. It continually puzzles me that people express their "surprise" that they weren't aware of whatever-is-current technology (even though social media, magazine articles, forum "stickies", etc. have advertised these issues for years)!

I agree with @brianteeman that numeric-only dates should never be used; the format d-mmm-yyyy is universally understood, even for people who do not use the Gregorian calendar. It's not a bad idea to suggest a target date for the EOS for J! 3.x.

I don't like the idea of "snoozing" the reminder for a maximum of 14 days. If this means that every two weeks a website owner is going to be "reminded" that their site is going to become a fossil in a year or two's time, they'll probably just disable the quickicon module completely. I would suggest that the "snooze" feature might benefit by optional settings (e.g. remind me in 5 minutes, one month, one year, never).

While it's not a bad idea of wording the hassle prompt with a message saying "support will be (or has) ended", what does support mean? We understand that "support" activities are undertaken voluntarily and that there's no official commitment to any SLA. It may be worth considering re-wording the phrase to say, "There will be no further software releases for J! 3.x after d-mmm-yyy." That's a fairly clear, unambiguous sentence. If people want to know more then they can read articles, forum "stickies" (if the forum still exists), social media, GitHub, etc.

@zero-24

... I think 14days is too long. Snooze for 7 days is optimal. If you are reminded more often, the probability that people are more likely to migrate to version 4 increases.

I think more likely responses will be that people will tune-out, switch it off, or move their business elsewhere.

In any case, regardless of perfecting the wording, J! 3.10 is only in alpha and there is only a handful of people who are actively testing it. Let's remove further barriers to progressing J! 3.10 further (beta-RC-stable) please. Getting hung-up on wording a hassle prompt, that a large number of people will probably ignore, is a very minor sticking point, IMO.

avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 22 Jul 2021
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avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 22 Jul 2021

@brianteeman I have now have finally got together with @softforge and we came up with the strings: dea6f72 Please have a look in there so we can get that thing merged into 3.10. Thanks! :)

avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 22 Jul 2021
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avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 25 Jul 2021
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avatar zero-24
zero-24 - comment - 25 Jul 2021

Ok will merge this here now in. When there are changes to be done for the language strings please do a PR. The first string will be shown 2 month after the inital release so we should have time to apply changes when needed but we can now push the strings to the TTs. Thanks!

avatar zero-24 zero-24 - change - 25 Jul 2021
Status Pending Fixed in Code Base
Closed_Date 0000-00-00 00:00:00 2021-07-25 09:37:12
Closed_By zero-24
avatar zero-24 zero-24 - close - 25 Jul 2021
avatar zero-24 zero-24 - merge - 25 Jul 2021

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