Are you planning on doing this in all the language files as the word joomla is used in about 30 files

@brianteeman I can do that, no problem. Just wanted to see what the feedback would be on this :)

Well personally speaking I dont like it as it makes it hard to read
On 4 Oct 2014 20:20, "RolandD" notifications@github.com wrote:

@brianteeman https://github.com/brianteeman I can do that, no problem.
Just wanted to see what the feedback would be on this :)

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I couldn't find any guidelines the usage of Joomla / joomla / Joomla!. Are there any? Just it seems all these words are used randomly. Having a guideline would be good to go by, so we can be consistent.

The only doc i know of is the TM doc which talks about the first use
requiring the TM

IIRC Pearson and other books publishers adopted a policy of not using the
! to aid readability

On 4 October 2014 20:30, RolandD notifications@github.com wrote:

I couldn't find any guidelines the usage of Joomla / joomla / Joomla!. Are
there any? Just it seems all these words are used randomly. Having a
guideline would be good to go by, so we can be consistent.

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#4455 (comment).

Brian Teeman
Co-founder Joomla! and OpenSourceMatters Inc.
http://brian.teeman.net/

I don't mind changing all these files but would hate it if later on things gets mixed up again and there is no reference as to why these things were changed. Having a guideline could be used as a manifest for enforcing consistent use. Or am I over-complicating things now?

I am all for consistency as you know ;)

I just checked my copy of the Official Joomla Explained book and see that
after the first occurrences they drop the ! but the Official Joomla
Templates book uses the ! all the time

Confusing

On 4 October 2014 20:40, RolandD notifications@github.com wrote:

I don't mind changing all these files but would hate it if later on things
gets mixed up again and there is no reference as to why these things were
changed. Having a guideline could be used as a manifest for enforcing
consistent use. Or am I over-complicating things now?

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#4455 (comment).

Brian Teeman
Co-founder Joomla! and OpenSourceMatters Inc.
http://brian.teeman.net/

Indeed the whole thing is confusing. Can we set a standard here? Is this something the brand working group should be involved in?

Best to leave it to the TM and Brand people I think. Lets do it one and do
it right

On 4 October 2014 20:54, RolandD notifications@github.com wrote:

Indeed the whole thing is confusing. Can we set a standard here? Is this
something the brand working group should be involved in?

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#4455 (comment).

Brian Teeman
Co-founder Joomla! and OpenSourceMatters Inc.
http://brian.teeman.net/

As you said, Joomla reads better than Joomla!, I am with you on that. So I updated the file to now only use Joomla.

following the Yahoo! Approach :

the ! is required in all headings and graphics except when it would be in conflict with other appropriate punctuation.

For example, instead of "are you using Joomla!?" we should use "are you using Joomla? yes I use Joomla!"
Note that in french, a space is required before any use of ! or ? or : and others, but we will use Joomla! like Yahoo!

Within body text, the ! is optional and even discouraged if it affects readability, unless you are referring to another one of trademarks as a proper name.
For example Joomla! 3.3 or the Joomla! Framework or the Joomla! Extensions Directory.
A generic reference to Joomla as either to the community or the software in general would be without a !

If it helps

@MAT978 I like that, it is clear and we should stick to that :)

+100
On 5 Oct 2014 07:33, "RolandD" notifications@github.com wrote:

@MAT978 https://github.com/MAT978 I like that, it is clear and we
should stick to that :)

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#4455 (comment).

+1

btw, the only guide for it is at http://www.joomla.org/component/content/article/72-about-the-project/259-logo-usage-and-brand-guide.html , which dates back to 2005. Within it, it doesn't go into nuances and only covers the exclamation mark in reference to the logo.

Hi
We get asked this constently. Here is what I copy and paste when this question comes up.

There are a number of other trademarks and service marks associated with The Joomla! Project and we do ask that you ALWAYS use use the bang and capitalize the initials when the word Joomla is part of a proper name for a product or service such as the Joomla! Community Magazine, the Joomla! Framework or the recent release of Joomla! 3.3 last month. In these instances it is helpful to add the superscript TM indicia the first time a product or service name appears on a page.

Our officially registered trademark is "Joomla!" and when used for branding, the bang should always be included unless you have a very strong reason not to. An example of a strong reason is a heading that asks a question like "Why Use Joomla?" where double punctuation is more confusing than helpful.

The common exception for not consistently using the bang is in body text when making a vague reference to Joomla, such as talking about "Joomla compatible plugins" and "the Joomla community." The punctuation mid-sentence in body text affects readability and thus it can be dropped after it has been properly used as a trademark higher up on the page. The exception to this exception are product and service names that are themselves trademarks or service marks.

We have no shortage of older examples of misuse of our marks and just because some areas are not in full compliance, doesn't mean we should not strive to have every future expression of our branding be in compliance.

I just had this topic pointed out to me so apologies for joining the conversation late. Speaking for the TM Team, the statements by both MAT and Jess are accurate summaries of the style guide that was initially proposed by the Joomla! Community Magazine and later adopted project-wide. PRs that are consistent with these summaries are most appreciated.

I will add one other clarification relating to what I have seen on J.org sites. Joomla! is our registered mark. As such, with the first predominant use of the mark on a Joomla-related page, we request that the circle-R indicia be included along with a footer that explains that the mark is registered and owned by OSM. We do not consider including the name Joomla! as a menu item, where the name and logo are at the same size as other menu links, to be a predominant use so there is no need to add the circle-R to "Joomla!" when it appears as a menu item linking to the home page. Only add it when Joomla! is appearing as a site logo or in a major heading or title such as in an h1, h2 or h3 tag.

In short, we only need to give notice to the world of our claim to ownership once on a page.

This applies to "our" pages. I consider sample data to be a gray area that serves as a starting point for end user pages. In sample data, we should be consistent in following the style guide with regard to when to include the exclamation point, but there is no great need to include the circle-R or TM indicia. They learned that we owned the trademark when they downloaded the software, so no need to provide redundant notice of trademark ownership.

One other topic - when to use TM and when to use circle-R. Circle-R only applies to the use of Joomla! (or Joomla! plus the logo design) standing alone, outside the context of a more specific product or service name. If Joomla! is part of a longer product or service name such as Joomla! 3.3 or Joomla! Framework or Joomla! Developer Network, then the entire phrase is serving as the proper name for that specific product or service. Therefore the phrase IS is trademark and should have the TM indicia included with the first dominant use of the mark on a page. These phrases are NOT registered even though they ARE trademarks and service marks and so a superscript circle-R should NOT be used and instead a superscript TM should be used.

Hope this helps and thank you for the great effort involved in cleaning up our sample data and language files.

Thanks all for the great feedback, I would like to compile this into a document for future reference. Where would be the correct place to put this?

Hey, if you want to help, that would be great! Until the trademark site goes live which will include all of this, I think it would be good to post into the Joomla docs wiki. Tom Hutchison is the guru of docs and can suggest the best place to insert it.

It probably should go in the code style guide as well @javier

On 10 October 2014 18:31, Duke3D notifications@github.com wrote:

Hey, if you want to help, that would be great! Until the trademark site
goes live which will include all of this, I think it would be good to post
into the Joomla docs wiki. Tom Hutchison is the guru of docs and can
suggest the best place to insert it.

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#4455 (comment).

Brian Teeman
Co-founder Joomla! and OpenSourceMatters Inc.
http://brian.teeman.net/

@Hutchy68 Can you give a hand as to where we can post this information on the Wiki? Thanks.

@rolandd i am going to close this at this time and @Hutchy68 and @Hilscheyne will review this when the style guide is completed. Best to do it all in one go. Hope thats ok with you?

This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application at issues.joomla.org/joomla-cms/4455.

Set to "closed" on behalf of @brianteeman by The JTracker Application at issues.joomla.org/joomla-cms/4455