Feature No Code Attached Yet
avatar simbus82
simbus82
4 Feb 2022

Steps to reproduce the issue

Try to add more than 160 ch in a Meta Description field, for example a Menu Voice.

Expected result

The counter become red or go to negative after 160ch, i can continue to write what i want, and maybe will be the search engine to truncate my content.
On mobile and in some devices (combination of resolution/dpi), Google use a pixels limit for Meta Description, so can be over 160ch.

Actual result

I can't try to use more that 160ch, the field have ad hard limit, so i can't, for example, cut&paste a long content and then edit to a 160 ch.
It's very annoying and time consuming.

image

Votes

# of Users Experiencing Issue
3/3
Average Importance Score
4.33

avatar simbus82 simbus82 - open - 4 Feb 2022
avatar joomla-cms-bot joomla-cms-bot - change - 4 Feb 2022
Labels Added: No Code Attached Yet
avatar joomla-cms-bot joomla-cms-bot - labeled - 4 Feb 2022
avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 4 Feb 2022

I'm sure we have discussed this before

avatar simbus82
simbus82 - comment - 4 Feb 2022

I'm sure we have discussed this before

I checked if there was some talk about the "hard" limit, but I didn't find any other "issues" on this subject.
There were some discussions about the length (which is correct anyway).
We work with these fields on a daily basis, and with Joomla 4 we have found a slowdown in the process with our copywriters and SEOs.

avatar ReLater
ReLater - comment - 4 Feb 2022

That was a political decision of Google disciples to force this limit. Nobody knows which limits will be recommended in the future and who is using meta fields for what purposes.

You can test this plugin that can also be configured to just not limit the length of some Meta fields.
https://github.com/GHSVS-de/plg_system_characterscounterghsvs#possible-settings-for-each-field-individually
But first read:
https://github.com/GHSVS-de/plg_system_characterscounterghsvs#restrictions

avatar simbus82
simbus82 - comment - 4 Feb 2022

That was a political decision of Google disciples to force this limit. Nobody knows which limits will be recommended in the future and who is using meta fields for what purposes.

I'm sorry about that, and a little worried.
I'm a SEO and I would never have made such a decision.

Probably those who led you down this path (blocking the entry in the field) lack some SEO and UX skills.

Google has constantly changed, and continues to change, the length of meta. Two years ago on mobile they exceeded 200 ch, to date there are continuous tests (doing a lot of SEO we often fall into rollout of Google beta functions).
All of who do SEO with Joomla 4, need to be free to work with these contents.

You can test this plugin that can also be configured to just not limit the length of some Meta fields. https://github.com/GHSVS-de/plg_system_characterscounterghsvs#possible-settings-for-each-field-individually But first read: https://github.com/GHSVS-de/plg_system_characterscounterghsvs#restrictions

Thanks a lot, But I hope this problem will be fixed because it remains a bug. The counter is ok, but we can't force a limit if not DB related.

I see that the limit is imposed in the XML, But is there a way to set the counter and not make it become the "max limit" of the field?

Maybe we can add a "case" here /libraries/src/Form/Field)/TextareaField.php called "charlimit" that if it is enabled do a true limit or not.
Is it possible @brianteeman? (i see that you worked on the "charcounter" code)

avatar simbus82
simbus82 - comment - 4 Feb 2022

I'm sure we have discussed this before

Found it, you are right! But no one considered the comment #27804 (comment)

image

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 4 Feb 2022

The script being used takes its count from the maxlength value in the field. To achieve what you want would require using a different attribute eg data-maxlength and changing the script to allow characters greater than the length and to count how many characters above that length.

Currently that script can not do this. Maybe if you submitted an issue report they will be able to make the change https://github.com/rikschennink/short-and-sweet/

avatar simbus82
simbus82 - comment - 7 Apr 2022

I made an issue (rikschennink/short-and-sweet#7) but, obviously, the developer, despite having clear how to do it, asks to do a PR.
Unfortunately I don't develop in JS, so I can't fix the external script.

I'll try to find someone who can fix it ...

avatar pcombet-adosis
pcombet-adosis - comment - 23 May 2022

Hello @brianteeman ,
I'm having the same issue. One of my client wants to be able to add extra character than the Default 160 char count, for the Metadata tab, in the backend. Modifying Charlimit in /libraries/src/Form/Field/TextareaField.php doesn't do anything.

Any clue to :

  1. have it changed hard coding the max char number
  2. changing it using a dynamic value than can be set somewhere in the backoffice (maybe on Global config > site > SEO) - see screenshot

Thanks Brian, from all the french AFUJ members (just coming back from Bruxelles 2022 Joomla Days).
Best
Philippe
seo-char-count

avatar pcombet-adosis
pcombet-adosis - comment - 2 Sep 2022

@brianteeman Hello Brian, any idea how to have this issue being analysed by the Dev team ? Who can be interested by this point in the Joomla dev team ? 160 char is very short from a SEO point of view...
Thanks for your answer.
Philippe


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avatar simbus82 simbus82 - change - 2 Sep 2022
Title
[4.x] Hard limit need to be removed in Meta Description field
[4.2] Hard limit need to be removed in Meta Description field
avatar simbus82 simbus82 - edited - 2 Sep 2022
avatar Mich-es
Mich-es - comment - 26 Sep 2022

Hi,

Ultimately, the 160 characters don't matter, it's just annoying.

SUGGESTION - the 160 characters stay gray as long as you are under 160 characters. Anything beyond that changes the 160 characters to red font, but you can still save it and it will be accepted that way. It is then up to the user what he does and what not.

Google recently had a 120 character limit and also Google takes the appropriate test from the meta that matches the search query and limits that to 160 characters. There can and may be more in there.

There's no limit on how long a meta description can be, but the snippet is truncated in Google Search results as needed, typically to fit the device width. https://developers.google.com/search/docs/appearance/snippet

avatar Sieger66
Sieger66 - comment - 26 Sep 2022

More people which wants a possibility of configuration the limit of Meta Description see also at:

#35018:

ReLater:
A core-side limitation of the length without the possibility of configuration is a no-go. No one knows whether the default length of 160 characters is also recommended for the future.
There is only the possibility to manipulate the JLayout textarea.php, but not in a flexible way.

coolcat-creations:
Thats not good, there are different recommendations for the desc and the administrator should be able to set an own limit or disable the limit. Last year there were even recommendations for 270 chars...

avatar bembelimen
bembelimen - comment - 29 Sep 2022

Some thoughts:

  • I guess best would be to remove the character limit temporary from the field till "short and sweet" is enhanced => someone's up for a PR?
  • Joomla itself supports data attributes, so when "short and sweet" is enhanced, it's a one liner to add the new function
  • The enhancement of "short and sweet" looks rather easy, just a second check the data attribute, shouldn't be that hard to pay someone to improve it.
avatar progreccor
progreccor - comment - 5 Oct 2022

yes, we need to remove this hard limit - not only Google use this field - we have others Search engines

avatar Mich-es
Mich-es - comment - 14 Oct 2022

Any news on this? Because this hard limit is since a few days ago simply disastrous - with Google and other search engines. There is NO limit so why in Joomla? Please remove or remodel sensibly - thank you very much!

avatar theigloo
theigloo - comment - 9 Dec 2022

Hi I just found this thread when searching for a solution to this.

So I agree the limit should be removed.

I think it should be up to the user how long the descriptions are, long descriptions can get better results as google has more text and info to play with.

thanks

Quote from Google:
"There's no limit on how long a meta description can be, but the snippet is truncated in Google Search results as needed, typically to fit the device width."

ref - https://developers.google.com/search/docs/appearance/snippet#meta-descriptions


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avatar simbus82
simbus82 - comment - 14 Dec 2022

Dear Joomla! Optimisation Team (JOT) (@weeblr and @agerix), could you push a little about this problem?

avatar weeblr
weeblr - comment - 14 Dec 2022

@simbus82 That team has been dismantled a while ago. It was actually not meant to work on Joomla itself but on improving the Joomla websites SEO.

avatar weeblr
weeblr - comment - 14 Dec 2022

My take on this would just be to remove the counter, it serves no purpose really.

avatar Mich-es
Mich-es - comment - 14 Dec 2022

@weeblr Thanks for the feedback, but not only the counter but the whole restriction should be removed. That would be a real improvement. I just hope that the old data will then all still work correctly

avatar weeblr
weeblr - comment - 14 Dec 2022

@Mich-es I likely read too quickly as I was under the impression the javascript character counter was the one restricting description length. Description is not limited in the database storage, so it has to be a "soft" limitation.

avatar weeblr
weeblr - comment - 14 Dec 2022

Ah no, there's also a max-length on the field definition. So indeed removing that restriction is a very quick and simple change, only a few lines to change in a few XML files

avatar pakimov
pakimov - comment - 11 Jan 2023

I agree the limit should be removed.

avatar weeblr
weeblr - comment - 11 Jan 2023

Hi

I made a PR for this.

avatar pcombet-adosis
pcombet-adosis - comment - 11 Jan 2023

Hi

I made a PR for this.

@weeblr Thank for your input and your help to have this issue resolved in the next J! versions.
Philippe

avatar wegas22
wegas22 - comment - 30 Jan 2023

I agree the limit should be removed.

avatar alex-90-rus
alex-90-rus - comment - 7 Feb 2023

I support, the restriction should be removed.

avatar djandressolano
djandressolano - comment - 12 Feb 2023

I have 15 years working in website and mostly in SEO, we did many many multiple tests, and had great results with bigger meta descriptions also in the tests we saw big meta descriptions did not created any problem with Google, is the same with the Title of the pages, we have a top # 1 site in google for over 8 years and page have a very big title and meta description and we saw that any site can't rank better just because of this.

So Joomla need to remove the meta description limit now!


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avatar djandressolano
djandressolano - comment - 12 Feb 2023

What we did is change the meta description in the configuration.php then you can check in the page source code.


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avatar Hackwar Hackwar - change - 17 Feb 2023
Labels Added: ?
avatar Hackwar Hackwar - labeled - 17 Feb 2023
avatar V1nc3nt79
V1nc3nt79 - comment - 25 Jul 2023

Dear @joomla! Optimisation Team (JOT) (@weeblr and @agerix) -> july 2023, still nothing ????? Do you know what SEO is ?


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avatar Mich-es
Mich-es - comment - 25 Jul 2023

SUGGESTION - the 160 characters stay gray as long as you are under 160 characters. Anything beyond that changes the 160 characters to red font, but you can still save it and it will be accepted that way. It is then up to the user what he does and what not.

Google recently had a 120 character limit and also Google takes the appropriate test from the meta that matches the search query and limits that to 160 characters. There can and may be more in there.

There's no limit on how long a meta description can be, but the snippet is truncated in Google Search results as needed, typically to fit the device width. https://developers.google.com/search/docs/appearance/snippet

It is therefore absurd for a CMS to impose a hard limit! Please think about it again.


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avatar pcombet-adosis
pcombet-adosis - comment - 25 Jul 2023

Hello @obuisard
I hope this message finds you well. I wanted to take advantage of your new role within the Joomla Dev Team to bring up an issue concerning Joomla that hinders its SEO functionalities. Could you please look into this matter with your team? Your assistance would be greatly appreciated! Thank you,
Philippe (who attended Joomla Days FR 2023, where you made a live appearance all the way from New York ;-)


Olivier bonjour, je profite de tes nouvelles fonctions au sein de Joomla Dev Team pour remettre sur le tapis ce probleme sur Joomla qui handicap les fonctionnalit├ęs SEO de Joomla. Peux-tu regarder pour faire quelque chose avec ton equipe ?! Merci, Philippe (present aux Joomla Days FR 2023 pour lesquels tu es intervenu en direct LIVE from New York ;-)

avatar obuisard
obuisard - comment - 25 Jul 2023

Bonjour Philippe @pcombet-adosis, I have gone through the conversations found in here and the PR that had been created by Yannick @weeblr. I understand the problem that was brought up.

The PR from Yannick was addressing the max length issue but by doing so was removing the letter count from the meta fields.
We need a solution that keeps the letter count with the allowance to go over the count (so that we don't remove the useful char counter).

Right now, the script that handles the char counter cannot go over the maxlength attribute. maxlength is a standard attribute for the 'input' element.

For the use case described in here to work, we would need to remove the maxLength attribute from the XML forms with the meta field but keep charcounter set to 'true'. That would also require the addition of a non-standard attribute (softMaxLength for instance, showing as data-softmaxlength in the input field) that the charcounter script could pick up and use for the char count. The charcounter script would use that value rather than the standard maxlength, which will be missing here. So basically, at this point, we have an input field that is not bound to a max length, but still have a counter that is bound. We could have the char count message become red as soon as the count reaches negative values.

This involves:

  • a modification of the script used for the char counter (no one stepped up for a modification as stated in rikschennink/short-and-sweet#7).
  • a modification of the textarea field (and text field, to keep features in sync) to accept the new attribute.

As I see it, the modifications need to be implemented into a 'feature' release (not the 4.3 branch).
We need someone to step up and implement the changes :-)
Any taker welcome.

avatar pcombet-adosis
pcombet-adosis - comment - 26 Jul 2023

Thank you @obuisard for all these clarifications. I understand the explanations and the implications it entails. I am not a developer, so I won't be able to be part of the potential correctors for the solution to be implemented. I just support simbus82's request because, on a daily basis, we encounter this demand from our clients to go beyond 160 characters for SEO optimization. For your information, I would like to mention that a solution has been found to exceed 160 characters. It involves modifying the file \administrator\components\com_content\forms\article.xml, line 211. To learn more, please read the last remark on the page #39598. Best regards to everyone! Philippe.
@simbus82

avatar V1nc3nt79
V1nc3nt79 - comment - 27 Jul 2023

Functionnality vs Gadget
Thank you @obuisard for your explanantion, I understand your problematic.
I think a product should be "Customer centric" and above all, should answer to pro requirements (at the end, Joomla is made to build the bests websites in the world...)
So,

  • Description field is an important elementary "functionnality", it answers to SEO requirement (normal and pro)
  • Char counter is a "gadget", that's great to know how much character you put in the description field,
    but if it implies to destroy an elementary functionnality, this gadget should be removed as long as no solution has been found to solve the problem with it.

If you read SEO and google blogs about meta description, maybe you will understand a little better what and why "pro" are expecting
"There's no limit on how long a meta description can be, but the snippet is truncated in Google Search results as needed, typically to fit the device width." - Google https://developers.google.com/search/docs/appearance/snippet?hl=en
"Sometimes when Google believes a query is more complex and deserves a longer answer, it can return much longer snippets. Google also regularly tests different search results, and in the past has shown snippets as long as 300 characters." https://www.screamingfrog.co.uk/learn-seo/meta-description/
-->> in my personnal experience, Google often pick up/choose a part of the meta description that answer to a querry
---->> no need of colorization of what you consider to be "extra characters"


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avatar HLeithner
HLeithner - comment - 18 Sep 2023

As compromise I raised the limit to 300 as suggested by a bigger search engine. please give a try at #41795

avatar HLeithner HLeithner - change - 18 Sep 2023
Status New Closed
Closed_Date 0000-00-00 00:00:00 2023-09-18 15:21:45
Closed_By HLeithner
Labels Added: Feature
Removed: ?
avatar HLeithner HLeithner - close - 18 Sep 2023

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