Just a reminder here that #21507 was killed without the project checking the claims that FTP is still used...

I'm hoping to complete my work on opcache for joomla 3 this weekend. If no one has committed to ultimately testing and fixing ftp in joomla 4 then I could take a look...

Is it even worth PRing ftp and opcode issues against joomla3 though... I have a feeling it's wasted effort fixing these things in already end of life joomla 3.9 and 3.10 is a stopgap release and jumping base to 4...

It's 2021 also...

@PhilETaylor are you gonna resurrect #21507 or fix the FTP implementation? (confused)

If I had my way I would rip it all out, however it seems the project wants to keep the FTP layer...

however it seems the project wants to keep the FTP layer...

Since it's already broken in J3, as Brian found out, what's the point of fixing it in J4 instead of removing it? (rhetorical question)

To be honest, most extensions ignore the FTP layer anyway. You see far too many unlink file_put_contents copy move_uploaded_file function calls in extensions and plugins - all of which ignore the Joomla Filesystem layer (I know, because Ive been recently working on the OPCache issue, which is basically the same as the FTP issue, that every write of a file should be going through the filesystem API so that the opcache can be cleared, and so the API can decide if FTP is needed or not!)

The FTP layer was a good idea a decade ago, but since then web hosts have learned how to do file ownership correctly, I doubt it makes any sense in the real world in 2021. However, there are those that will argue for it to remain.

I may be completely wrong in my test and it does work in Joomla 3. I don't think I am as this is the second or third time I have spent several hours trying to see if it works.

I am not proposing doing anything in Joomla 3 at all. I am just saying that if it doesn't work right now and we are not getting reports that it doesn't work then it can't be being used. The obvious conclusion to that is there is no point at all in fixing ftp joomla 4 where it also doesn't work.

Joomla 4 currently has at least one PR to try and fix ftp install plus several issues that have not been addressed at all. At least one of which I believe will make joomla 4 unusable on an ftp only site.

However as @dgrammatiko points out when @roland-d submitted #21507 to remove the ftp layer from Joomla 4 there were two senior members of the community who were 100% in disagreement. At the time I personally accepted that they must be correct and that my tests must have been in error. I really doubt that now.

Maybe its best that we (or I) take a look and document exactly

• When the FTP is coded to be used
• When it actually gets used
• When it actually is meant to be used, is used, and doesn't work
• When it actually is meant to be used, is used, and does work
• When Joomla BYPASSES using the FileSystem API (and thus directly manipulates files) - E.g Cache clearing doesn't use Joomla's File System API for "performance reasons".. although it could be argued that the ownership of a cache file is the same as the web server that created it, but that's the point Joomla SHOULD BE USING the FileSystem API (which is FTP aware) to WRITE cache files, else the webspace is left with some owned by FTP user and some owned by Web Server user (and thus undeleteable by FTP!)

If we (the plebs) can find and document EXACTLY what is not working then either

1. Those that make the decisions can be better informed and make the decision to remove the FTP layer
   or
2. Someone has a definitive list of things that are "broken", with concrete steps to replicate, and therefore can be fixed.

We (the plebs) need to make (the probably already made) decision not to bother touching FTP in Joomla 3 and concentrate all FTP based effort on Joomla 4 only.

Its all a lot of work, to maintain, for little reward. Its now 2021 and FTP itself should be abandoned as its uses (mainly, normally) clear text authentication, and the storing of credentials for FTP should be discouraged.

In a (non-random) sample of 67,000 Joomla sites - not a single site in this sample uses the FTP layer, with stored credentials.

I guess we can all agree at this point that rejecting #21507 was a very bad decision. Now we have to redo all the work once again, on short notice. Fun times...

@wilsonge @rdeutz @HLeithner can you re-evaluate the project's requirements on FTP support?

@dgrammatiko It was rejected on the basis that the ftp stuff would be fixed. As with every other PR that was either merged or rejected on that basis there has been no significant progress. Other than removing the release blocker labels to give the impression that there has been progress on those issues nothing has changed.

So I spent sometime to day to test FTP stuffs on my local computer (Windows 10) and below are the result:

• Installing extension works with FTP enabled
• However, I believe update Joomla! with Installation method set to Hybrid (use FTP only if needed) or Write files using FTP will never works (both for Joomla 3 and Joomla 4). The reason is because we do not write correct data for FTP parameters https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/blob/4.0-dev/administrator/components/com_joomlaupdate/src/Model/UpdateModel.php#L549 (we are trying to get it directly from request but these data do not exist in the request at all)

There are also some code in restore.php file which is not working for Windows, too.

In short, Update Joomla! does not work with FTP at all until now.

are you sure that the permissions on your test site were such that ftp was actually being used? I couldnt get extensions to install.

@brianteeman I installed FileZilla FTP server for testing. For the account, I just give it full permission

For more information, when I tried to enable FTP on Joomla 3 website, at first, Configuration could not be saved (because the file was marked as Read Only by Joomla! before, I had to changed permission of the file configuration.php to make it writable) after that, it is working welll

But as I said, upload and update Joomla using FTP installation methods will never work.

Shall we just ignore Joomla 3?

Following the projects decision to remove the FTP Layer from Joomla 4 - this can now be closed.

No we shouldn't it's a j3 feature, if we find someone how fix it we should do it.

Closed due to lack of interest. Its been broken for so long and no one else noticed.