JSON database field type could be a problem because as far as I know MariaDB won't support that.

@wilsonge What's your opinion?

@richard67 JSON data type, got support in MariaDB 10.2.7 https://mariadb.com/kb/en/json-data-type
But I'm not just talking about the JSON field type
With MySQL 5.7.8 and later I can execute a query, for example:

SELECT `attribs` - >> '$ .article_page_title' FROM` #__ content`

Because the data in the attribs field is JSON encoded

@kernusr Would that work in MariaDB, too? If so, beginning with which version? Maybe we should also update the MariaDB minimum version requirement?

For explanation: We use the same database drivers for MySQL and MariaDB, but we have of course different minimum version requirements. The support for MariaDB is more or less inofficial, so the minimum version for MariaDB is not listed in Joomla's documentation about required database versions.

Current minimum MariaDB version is 10.1 for J4.

Current minimum MariaDB version is 10.1 for J4.

How can you talk about the minimum version of MariaDB if her support is not stated in the documentation.
As far as I understand, the user uses MariaDB at his own risk. There is no version check for the MySQL forks in jumla. Therefore, the user must solve all compatibility problems independently.
Otherwise, it is necessary to prescribe compatibility conditions not only with MariaDB but also with other MySQL forks (for example: Percona)

The talk about the "official" support of Mary was here #14141 and it is closed

We check the minimum version for MariaDB at several places, e.g. when running installation we define it here https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/blob/4.0-dev/installation/src/Helper/DatabaseHelper.php#L30 and use it here https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/blob/4.0-dev/installation/src/Helper/DatabaseHelper.php#L150.

Please look fo this https://endoflife.date/mariadb
MariaDB 10.1 has end of life in 17 Oct 2020

We check the minimum version for MariaDB at several places, e.g. when running installation we define it here https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/blob/4.0-dev/installation/src/Helper/DatabaseHelper.php#L30 and use it here https://github.com/joomla/joomla-cms/blob/4.0-dev/installation/src/Helper/DatabaseHelper.php#L150.

I was inattentive and missed this moment

If MySQL supports the JSON stuff since version 5.7.8, we only have to find out which MariaDB version starts to support that, too, and raise the requirement for both to the right value. @kernusr Can you investigate that MariaDB version number?

@kernusr And why 5.7.8 and not just 5.7 as minimum for MySQL?

As far as I know, MariaDB has received json support since the JSON data type, got support in MariaDB 10.2.7
But I will additionally check this on the test server and report the result

If you can investigate all that I can make the necessary pull request here for Joomla 4.

@kernusr And why 5.7.8 and not just 5.7 as minimum for MySQL?

100% work with JSON is confirmed only from version 5.7.8
I can not guarantee that in MySQL 5.7.0 this will work correctly

If we hope that users install all software updates on time, then we can limit ourselves to checking version of MySQL 5.7

Hosts tend to be quite conservative when it comes to the version of mysql in use.

If I understand this request correctly there is nothing stopping you making it a requirement for using your code.

As there is nothing in core that would be using this I would be reluctant to change the minimum version for the entirety of Joomla - my 2c

I would also look at our usage stats before making any change

@brianteeman Agree on that. I think it has to be decided by release lead or PLT anyway. Just in case if it needs to make the PR, I will be available. Regarding stats: Do we already have useful stats for J4?

I agree with @brianteeman that hosts are conservative
However, the release date of the RC and Stable version of the joomla are not defined
I am sure that the release of J!4 will take place after the end of support for MySQL 5.6 and MariaDB 10.1 and the hosts will have no choice how to update the MySQL version on their servers

Assume people won't change hosts when they upgrade from 3 :)

A question to the extension developers: Why don't you establish a DB check in your extension's script.php? Gives you the freedom to restrict the requirements to whatever you want and it's simple.

I mean instead of kicking the next group of potential users because their DB version doesn't match. If the Joomla core doesn't need a version higher than xx, Joomla shouldn't establish restrictions from my point of view.

and the hosts will have no choice how to update the MySQL version on their servers

They have and always had the choice to use older versions, too. That's the "living reality".

We choose MySQL 5.6 as requirement because we need a migration path between Joomla 3.10 and 4.0, Joomla 3.x could have problems with MySQL 5.7 because of the datetime column.

@HLeithner Thanks for the explanation ... I knew there was a reason for it, I just did not remember now which one ?

Does 5.7 enforce strict standard? Why there could be a problem with datetime field?

Kinda correct. See the section https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/sql-mode.html#sql-mode-changes . It's configurable around the NO_ZERO_DATE flag but we can't really start to guarantee behavior. In MySQL 8 that then become enabled by default which is the hard break. Changing all our null dates is obviously a b/c break for anything querying content tables etc which is why we made the change in J4 but we obviously need a j3 and j4 version that support the same MySQL version

Well. It's February 2021. Maybe we should go back to the discussion of mysql 5.7?

It wont change the problem of users upgrading as described above by both @HLeithner and @wilsonge

this issue has been opened on May 2020
till then a lot of water has flowed under the bridge

• j3 will be supported for 1/2 years more

so don't cut the wings of j4

IMO the minimum should be moved to MySQL 5.7. Supporting and promoting the use of an end of life version is dangerous. MySQL 5.6 will not receive bug or security fixes anymore. Joomla should move its requirements to never support an EOL version. It's not just about "what features does that version bring?". Joomla 4 stable is not released. This is the right time to be making these changes.

Regarding the JSON column stuff the following versions fully support JSON columns. They are a more efficient storage for JSON data on MySQL. It doesn't matter for MariaDB as it has different storage methods for TEXT that they found to be fine for JSON.

MySQL 5.7.8
MariaDB 10.2.7

I made the same argument for PHP 7.4 minimum instead of PHP 7.2, which is also EOL, and fell on deaf ears. I suspect this will do the same unfortunately. Next major releases of modern frameworks are bumping their MySQL and PHP versions respectively. There's no reason Joomla shouldn't do the same. Joomla needs to attract modern talent.

Note that a lot of servers run RHEL/CentOS 7.x and don't have the required MariaDB version for Joomla 4. I was planning to do some test installs of Joomla 4 before planning to upgrade several Joomla 3 sites on our servers (we host Joomla sites for companies), but I can't even install Joomla 4 due to this issue.

And Joomla 3.10 will be EOL before RHEL/CentOS 7.x

This should be moved to discussions.

I'm closing this since J4 is released and the core wouldn't benefit (at this time) from a newer minimum requirement.

@rodlie sadly we can't give the same version support like centos mainly because we don't have enough volunteers to handle this. Also Joomla could benefit from new features supported in the newer database engine like JSON encoding. I know it maybe not your way to go but you can easily install mariadb 10.4 on centos.

A possible way to extend Joomla 3 lifetime would be on extended support contract like typo3 is doing this but I don't see enough companies asking for this (and are willing to pay for it).

@HLeithner I understand that this can't be fixed now, but this is a major issue for hosting providers, and something that should have been considered before the release of Joomla 4.

On a positive note, I don't need to migrate from v3 to v4 anymore :P (which would have taken a year at the minimum).

It was hard enough to keep 5.6 as minimum version (which is already EOL) and not switch directly to 8.0.... we also have some really bad mysql 5.7 versions doing wired stuff... mysql 5.5 is EOL 3 years ago...

if you don't migrate what are you doing instead?

if you don't migrate what are you doing instead?

If possible backport fixes, if a issue got a CVE or something I can fix it, else do nothing.... at least until 2024.