I think its more that "modern" has never been updated with the new features in j4 - not just the new menu structure

This is the question. What is the difference between Joomla and modern? Is Joomla old-fashioned?
What is modern compared to Joomla? Do we need different presets?

I would suggest to first decide if we need two presets and what is their purpose.

Only then can we really know what to call it.

My 2c is that we don't need 2 presets

Joomla and Modern are alternatives. And not bad ones imho.
If someone does not want all the dashboard stuff except the Home dashboard , specially the System Dashboard, then the Modern preset is the preset to use as it proposes a similar navigation to what we had in 3.x
Does it need to be updated? I did not check all but it should be easy to do if needed.

I would name them default and alternate
but if nobody updates the second one then it should be removed

First has to be decided what is missing into it... if anything is.

I agree that a simple preset "modern" is useful.
But it seems that I am the only one who automatically thinks "if this is modern, then other one alternative (Joomla) is old-fashioned"

Understand. Changing names is the solution.

The main change I would do for the "modern" one that could indeed be called "Alternate" is placing the Home Dashboard out of the MOD_MENU_SYSTEM container as its own. I.e.

	<menuitem
		type="component"
		title="MOD_MENU_CONTROL_PANEL"
		link="index.php"
		element="com_cpanel"
		class="home"
	/>

	<menuitem
		title="MOD_MENU_SYSTEM"
		type="heading"
		icon="wrench"
		class="class:wrench"
		>
etc.

In order to get

Also, needs moving Content above Media and take off the redundant workflows item. Add Smart Search when #24020 will be done

Naming "default" and "alternate" is a first step, I'll try to find what has to be changed to do that.
Changing the content of a preset then is easy.

Apart from changing the names of the files, the code is in the MenusHelper in the getPresets() method. Therefore 2 lang strings to delete and 2 new ones to add + the path.

static::addPreset('joomla', 'JLIB_MENUS_PRESET_JOOMLA', JPATH_ADMINISTRATOR . '/components/com_menus/presets/joomla.xml');
			static::addPreset('modern', 'JLIB_MENUS_PRESET_MODERN', JPATH_ADMINISTRATOR . '/components/com_menus/presets/modern.xml');
			static::addPreset('system', 'JLIB_MENUS_PRESET_SYSTEM', JPATH_ADMINISTRATOR . '/components/com_menus/presets/system.xml');
			static::addPreset('content', 'JLIB_MENUS_PRESET_CONTENT', JPATH_ADMINISTRATOR . '/components/com_menus/presets/content.xml');
			static::addPreset('help', 'JLIB_MENUS_PRESET_HELP', JPATH_ADMINISTRATOR . '/components/com_menus/presets/help.xml');
			static::addPreset('menus', 'JLIB_MENUS_PRESET_MENUS', JPATH_ADMINISTRATOR . '/components/com_menus/presets/menus.xml');
			static::addPreset('components', 'JLIB_MENUS_PRESET_COMPONENTS', JPATH_ADMINISTRATOR . '/components/com_menus/presets/components.xml');
			static::addPreset('users', 'JLIB_MENUS_PRESET_USERS', JPATH_ADMINISTRATOR . '/components/com_menus/presets/users.xml');

Simple to do.

Can do if you wish

The renaming is done, but the alternate preset does not work as it is now. I must derive it from the new default one. .

I must derive it from the new default one.

Can you explain? For me, except for a few things I noted above, it does not need much changes. Basically I see it without any dashboard except the Home one.

Seeems to be only missing language keys in the extensions submenu.

That happened to me also at first sight.
I had to reload browser and the lang keys values display again instead of the constants.

@infograf768 Please try this. I have renamed the files but see conflicts.

Closing as we have a patch
#26084

@infograf768 Please try this. I have renamed the files but see conflicts.

Asked Tobias to look at that

Found an issue for the joomla-default as well as for modern-alternate preset. We miss a sub menu for Messaging with the link
option=com_messages&view=messages
I guess it has to be added in the sql

I know we can access there via the top icon but I think we should anyway

You are right that this is missingin the presets. Would you open an issue for that?

It is something private while all other links are just joomla, so don't see where it matches.