? ? Pending

User tests: Successful: Unsuccessful:

avatar rdeutz
rdeutz
26 Feb 2020

Summary of Changes

If you disable the styles in your browser you can see that we have menu items in the backend with words without a space between. This is not good when using the site with screen reader.

Before Patch

6A66821C-6D28-41B0-B369-4A9349A0E460

After Patch

96F2488D-8992-4E72-9771-6D1A0BA535CB

Testing Instructions

  • Disable Styles
  • See that there is no space
  • Apply Patch
  • Disable Styles
  • There are spaces now e.g. between "Content" and "Content Dashboard"

Expected result

Spaces between words

Actual result

No spaces between some words

Documentation Changes Required

no

avatar rdeutz rdeutz - open - 26 Feb 2020
avatar rdeutz rdeutz - change - 26 Feb 2020
Status New Pending
avatar joomla-cms-bot joomla-cms-bot - change - 26 Feb 2020
Category Modules Administration
avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 26 Feb 2020

This is not good when using the site with screen reader.

Sorry @rdeutz that's not correct. Because they are separate links the screen reader announces them correctly as

Articles link
Add Article link

Tested with NVDA and Narrator

avatar angieradtke
angieradtke - comment - 28 Feb 2020

Dear Brian,
yes there are two links, yes it is possible that NVDA recognizes this.
But the most screenreader does not make any breathing space in between.
In addition, we have text browser as well. If you turn off the styles it does not look really right.

Angie

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 28 Feb 2020

But the most screenreader does not make any breathing space in between.

Please back that statement with evidence

In addition, we have text browser as well. If you turn off the styles it does not look really right.

Nothing looks right if you do that and it is completely unusable

avatar angieradtke
angieradtke - comment - 28 Feb 2020

Sorry, Brian, we have more important things to do.
There should be a space.
Or it'll be a orthographic mistake as well.
A space will not break the code.

I would be happy if you could take a look at the accessibility of search tools. .-)

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 28 Feb 2020

sorry but you are not correct and this pr is pointless and should not be merged.

avatar rdeutz
rdeutz - comment - 28 Feb 2020

Nothing looks right if you do that and it is completely unusable

If we merge this then at least this part would be usable, small step but in the right direction

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 28 Feb 2020

I have now tested this in
JAWS, NVDA, Narrator, TalkBack on windows and android
None of those 4 have any issue at all

avatar angieradtke
angieradtke - comment - 28 Feb 2020

Brian you got all these screenreaders on your machine.
That is really great. It would be so helpful if you can test the searchtools as well.

avatar chmst
chmst - comment - 28 Feb 2020

I have tested this item successfully on 86a4cfd


This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application at issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/28096.

avatar chmst chmst - test_item - 28 Feb 2020 - Tested successfully
avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 28 Feb 2020

Sorry but I will repeat this is completely wrong and not required unless you can prove otherwise. If you can then you will need to go through the entire codebase to add useless spaces

avatar ot2sen
ot2sen - comment - 28 Feb 2020

Have returned to read and understand this several times today.
Obviously, it solves a concatenation issue that shouldn't be there. Just not for the reason stated. As Brian says those are links and will be understood in screen readers. Was it spans of texts it would be another issue as they wouldn´t be understood. So remove the a11y label and call it a cosmetic fix if so :)

But the more you look at the before/after patch it reveals the UI/UX issue directly in front of you.
Try read these 'after' items out loud. That can be with a screen reader, your normal glasses or plain sight. No matter which, it says: Double Double This thing. That is the actual issue I got from this.

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 28 Feb 2020

@ot2sen everything looks bad if you don't have the CSS. No surprise.

avatar ot2sen
ot2sen - comment - 28 Feb 2020

@brianteeman Yes that was the point I was trying to reach. Instructions say 'when you deactivate styling'. And the fixed result give you: Component Component Something. Not sure that it is better at all :)

avatar angieradtke
angieradtke - comment - 1 Mar 2020

ok , https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Understanding/info-and-relationships.html

cite: ..... For example, the presentation format changes when the content is read by a screen reader or when a user style sheet is substituted for the style sheet provided by the author.

no styles have a reason.
This is Level A
Angie

avatar brianteeman
brianteeman - comment - 1 Mar 2020

Read it all. That does not apply because the markup is semantically correct and can be determined programmatically.

avatar angieradtke
angieradtke - comment - 1 Mar 2020

You're right and I'm at peace.
It's still a typo.

avatar rdeutz rdeutz - close - 1 Mar 2020
avatar rdeutz
rdeutz - comment - 1 Mar 2020

Change 100 files and you get ok fine, merged. Change one line and you are discussing endless hours.

avatar rdeutz rdeutz - change - 1 Mar 2020
Status Pending Closed
Closed_Date 0000-00-00 00:00:00 2020-03-01 10:55:01
Closed_By rdeutz
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